If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

888-806-2588

review of scientific and news articles on dna testing and popular genetics

Gypsy Migrations

Wednesday, October 05, 2011

The Gypsies, or Roma, or Romani (so called because of their concentration in Romania) are a far-flung distinctive population with a lot of diversity. In our database, we have samples of four Gypsy populations, plus samples for Romania, Macedonia and Hungary which you can match if you have even a small degree of Gypsy/Romani.

Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East and often lived in the same Central European areas in modern times, but true Gypsy matches usually come with Indian, especially north Indian matches, because that's where the Gypsies lived around the 900s before they backtracked into Iran and Turkey and eventually crossed the Bosporus into Europe.

The Gypsy language, Romani, shows a strong Romanian influence but its basic vocabulary and grammar point to a north Indian origin.

The Gypsy religion, on the other hand, is not Indian or Hindu but closest to Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism.

"It is not known when or why the Gypsies left India but they were living in Iran by the tenth century AD. The Iranian poet Firdausi (c. 930-1020) wrote of the Gypsies in his epic history of the Iranians, the Shah Nama (Book of Kings), that they were originally a tribe of musicians who had been sent to the ruler of Iran by an Indian king. Once they had eaten the ruler out of house and home, the Gypsies took to the roads. By the 11th century Gypsies were living in the Byzantine empire and soon afterwards were spreading through the Balkans. When the Ottoman Turks began to overrun the Balkans in the 14th century, groups of Gypsies dispersed across western Europe, reaching Bohemia in 1399, Bavaria in 1418, Paris in 1421, Rome in 1423 and Spain in 1425. In the early 16th century Gypsies spread to Britain, Scandinavia, Poland and Russia, but the Balkans remained the main Gypsy centre." John Haywood, The Great Migrations from the Earliest Humans to the Age of Globalization (London:  Quercus), p. 142.


Gypsy Migrations according to Haywood.

Comments

Shari commented on 16-Oct-2011 10:26 AM

According to my mother’s Fingerprint Plus DNA test, both of her parents had Jewish I and Jewish III DNA. One parent had Tatar/Khazar DNA (Jewish IV). India was Mom’s Top World Match. Mom’s mother was genetically Roma-Gypsy. To date there is no genealogical
evidence that Mom’s father was either Roma-Gypsy or Jewish. I’m wondering if the combination of Jewish I and Jewish III along with Indian (from India) ancestry is the typical DNA pattern found for persons of Gypsy-Roma ancestry. Perhaps Jewish I and III could
also indicate only Jewish ancestry, a possibility for Mom’s father’s ancestry. Another possibility would be that her father had unconfirmed Gypsy-Roma ancestry. One or the other parent having Jewish IV DNA may provide a clue. I enjoyed reading GYPSY MIGRATIONS.
I’ve also found the following Internet article to be interesting. Dr. Hancock suggests that Romani had “military” beginnings on the basis of his linguistic and historical research: “An examination of the earliest words in the Romani language suggests a number
of things: firstly that there is little in the original, ‘first layer’ Indian vocabulary that reflects a nomadic or itinerant population, but rather it points to a settled one; and secondly that while there are not many original words for e.g. artisan or agricultural
skills, there are quite a few military terms... ”

From: ON ROMANI ORIGINS AND IDENTITY, Ian Hancock The Romani Archives and Documentation Center 
 The University of Texas at Austin

 http://www.radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_b_history_origins&lang=ry&articles=true

Donald Locke commented on 18-Oct-2011 12:23 AM

"Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East" I would disagree with this opinion that the Romany originated in the Middle East when we clearly originated in South Asia. India,
Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan. I am of the English Romanichal vista "clan" and the Romanichal vista Y DNA results clearly show a high average of our male population carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, more importantly I am the researcher who discovered the relationship
between marker 425 = 0, null to the Romany H1a male lineages. To date, of all the Romany H1a male lineages identified so far, of all those tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were found carrying this same null value marker mutation in common regardless our
surnames, and regardless which Romany vista "clan" we hail from. Romany of England, Scotland, Hungary, Bulgaria have found Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which clearly links the Romanichal vista to the Roma vista's of Europe. mt Haplo Group
M5a1 which is also being claimed as South Asian in origin has also recently been discovered amongst the English Romanichal. I am the Admin. of the Y Haplo Group H and Romany DNA projects with FTDNA. To date not a single Asian Y Haplo H1a male has been found
carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, this mutation so far is only found among the European Romany male population. And as far as I am concerned, H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation = Romany origins. Donald Locke

stevo commented on 11-May-2012 03:01 PM

my name is steven and i have found out that my real farther was Roma/Gypsy . my my mom was jewish from morroco. there are a group of people in eastern turkey called kerds and the name sindh is a common surname with them. i bealeve they travled to india
backtraped to turkey and then went to germany/auatria and this group beacame the sinti rom of the rinelands. that however is the sinti the other rom im not sure.

Theo commented on 31-Jul-2013 02:45 AM

Hello. While your article is interesting and should be accurate from a scientific point of view, I would like to make some amendments to your cultural references.

Back home gypsies are called Rromi, or Rrom ethnics, and that distinction makes no linguistic sense in Romanian. This leads me to believe they inherited the name from an older distinction. As a native Romanian, to me the gypsy language makes absolutely no sense. I can't understand a thing until they actually switch to a different language.

Mel commented on 17-May-2014 06:00 PM

A few corrections...

The word "Romani" has nothing to do with Romania, as stated in the article above. The word is the feminine adjective form of "Rom" which means man in the Romani language.

Our religion tends to be Christian, not "Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism".


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image


Recent Posts


Tags

Eske Willerslev X chromosome England prehistoric art National Health Laboratories District of Columbia Maui Svante Paabo Jewish contribution to world literature David Cornish DNA magazine Gypsies Genome Sciences Building Algonquian Indians Altai Turks Douglas Preston Theodore Steinberg African DNA Muslims in American history Harold Sterling Gladwin Thuya haplogroup W Victor Hugo personal genomics North African DNA clinical chemistry Wales Holocaust Database American Journal of Human Genetics Nayarit Nephilim, Fritz Zimmerman Anne C. Stone Melungeon Heritage Association Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute Kitty Prince of the Bear River Athabaskans Plato James Shoemaker Oxford Nanopore haplogroup T Jack Goins Colin Pitchfork art history Asiatic Fathers of America GlobalFiler corn Neolithic Revolution megapopulations Kari Carpenter Hispanic ancestry alleles Isabel Allende hoaxes CODIS markers Melanesians Austronesian, Filipinos, Australoid Irish Central myths admixture AP haplogroup R Germany Mother Qualla Sizemore Indians Cave art consanguinity Melungeon Union Salt River Henry VII Taino Indians Tifaneg Walter Plecker Ananya Mandal Navajo DNA databases genealogy far from the tree history of science Belgium Stan Steiner Secret History of the Cherokee Indians Cismar Majorca Tennessee New York Review of Books Dienekes Anthropology Blog rock art mutation rate James Stritzel Israel, Shlomo Sand Europe haplogroup U China Sarmatians gedmatch Abenaki Indians Teresa Panther-Yates FBI Rare Genes Family Tree DNA population isolates news Central Band of Cherokee Epigraphic Society human migrations Tintagel Hawaii Roma People autosomal DNA Holocaust Michael Grant Celts Irish history Sasquatch George van der Merwede Alabama Ancestry.com FDA Beringia Zuni Indians DNA Fingerprint Test Cornwall Sonora Jewish genetics Middle Ages Early Jews and Muslims of England and Wales (book) Barack Obama Black Dutch Central Band of Cherokees Luca Pagani Michoacan Ireland India mental foramen Micmac Indians Richard III Wendy Roth Stacy Schiff Hohokam Jim Bentley DNA security First Peoples Moundbuilders population genetics Sorbs Richard Lewontin haplogroup C Hopi Indians genetics Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act forensics Genex Diagnostics Patrick Henry Maya Elizabeth DeLand haplogroup N Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama Phyllis Starnes Philippa Langley Melungeons Nature Genetics race Janet Lewis Crain John Wilwol Lab Corp Colin Renfrew French Canadians haplogroup X Charlotte Harris Reese Timothy Bestor Smithsonian Magazine Dragging Canoe clan symbols Kari Schroeder Kurgan Culture haplogroup D bloviators Tucson Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America Nikola Tesla Nancy Gentry methylation Ukraine mitochondrial DNA Discovery Channel research Finnish people Virginia genealogy Keros Pueblo Grande Museum haplogroup B Helladic art Wikipedia Gunnar Thompson Stephen Oppenheimer Caucasian Paleolithic Age haplogroup E Smithsonian Institution American history Bradshaw Foundation Michael Schwartz polydactylism Chromosomal Labs Bode Technology Carl Zimmer Miguel Gonzalez prehistory Melba Ketchum immunology bar mitzvah Constantine Rafinesque pipe carving Monya Baker Mexico Riane Eisler Jalisco Basques Anne Marie Fine Ripan Malhi Waynesboro Pennsylvania Thruston Tablet Rich Crankshaw George Starr-Bresette Harold Goodwin climate change Russia University of Leicester Ziesmer, Zizmor Jon Entine Old World Roots of the Cherokee haplogroup H mummies DNA testing companies Jone Entine Leicester NPR hominids Scientific American crypto-Jews Phoenicians Arabic 23andme Pueblo Indians Lebanon North Carolina Henriette Mertz Greeks Bulgaria Penny Ferguson Anacostia Indians Joel E. Harris John Butler London Richard Dewhurst Odessa Shields Cox religion Robinson Crusoe French DNA Olmec El Castillo cave paintings Arizona Jesse Montes Zionism Patagonia New Mexico Bentley surname research breast cancer Life Technologies Panther's Lodge New York Times Cooper surname HapMap Phoenix King Arthur Zizmer Hertfordshire Bigfoot Sam Kean Sir Joshua Reynolds Jan Ravenspirit Franz Austro-Hungary Clovis Amy Harmon M. J. Harper anthropology INORA ISOGG Les Miserables Cherokee DNA Elizabeth C. Hirschman Current Anthropology Mohawk Henry IV N. Brent Kennedy Cherokee Freedmen Romania FOX News palatal tori microsatellites Melungeon Movement Brian Wilkes Rush Limbaugh Mark Stoneking National Museum of Natural History Y chromosome DNA BBCNews Daniel Defoe Early Jews of England and Wales Daily News and Analysis Mary Settegast Ostenaco medicine Slovakia haplogroup M Wendell Paulson Donald N. Yates Ethel Cox Science magazine Joseph Andrew Park Wilson Ashkenazi Jews Columbia University Antonio Torroni Hohokam Indians ENFSI Pima Indians Khoisan Yates surname Roberta Estes Oxford Journal of Evolution Britain Phillipe Charlier cancer rapid DNA testing Cherokee DNA Project Russell Belk aliyah Albert Einstein College of Medicine John Ruskamp Great Goddess B'nai Abraham King Arthur, Tintagel, The Earliest Jews and Muslims of England and Wales giants Navajo Indians Mary Kugler Juanita Sims New York Academy of Sciences Sinaloa Cree Indians surnames Peter Parham Douglas Owsley Rebecca L. Cann Bill Tiffee IntegenX Iran Etruscans Telltown Arizona State University ethnicity epigenetics Bering Land Bridge Discover magazine Nature Communications oncology The Nation magazine Jewish novelists private allele Tom Martin Scroft Old Souls in a New World andrew solomon DNA Diagnostics Center Sinti Stone Age Freemont Indians Turkic DNA Nadia Abu El-Haj Terry Gross Tutankamun Akhenaten Texas A&M University DNA Forums Sizemore surname evolution ancient DNA Ancient Giantns Who Ruled America Native American DNA Test seafaring Kate Wong haplogroup J Anglo-Saxons human leukocyte testing Choctaw Indians Karenn Worstell Society for Crypto-Judaic Studies Patrick Pynes Jews Gravettian culture MHC Shlomo Sand Douglas C. Wallace Denisovans genomics labs Erika Chek Hayden Ron Janke Johnny Depp Comanche Indians Pomponia Graecina Maronites PNAS Ari Plost Sea Peoples Elvis Presley DNA Israel Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Havasupai Indians Kennewick Man European DNA Black Irish haplogroup L Rutgers University Bryan Sykes familial Mediterranean fever Mildred Gentry Harry Ostrer powwows Joseph Jacobs EURO DNA Fingerprint Test haplogroup Z pheromones Stony Creek Baptist Church Grim Sleeper Charles Darwin Colima Cajuns Rafael Falk health and medicine Y chromosomal haplogroups Indo-Europeans human leukocyte antigens Normans Applied Epistemology statistics Asiatic Echoes occipital bun Indian Territory Gregory Mendel DNA Fingerprint Test cannibalism Egyptians Puerto Rico National Geographic Daily News When Scotland Was Jewish Gila River Italy Cancer Genome Atlas Barnard College Chris Tyler-Smith Cismaru Panther's Lodge Publishers Horatio Cushman Fritz Zimmerman family history Cohen Modal Haplotype Acadians Satoshi Horai Chris Stringer Charles Perou Marie Cheng genetic memory Richard Buckley Population genetics Richmond California Arabia Eric Wayner Solutreans Chauvet cave paintings horizontal inheritance metis Promega Abraham Lincoln Chuetas Marija Gimbutas Science Daily, Genome Biol. Evol., Eran Elhaik, Khazarian Hypothesis, Rhineland Hypothesis Louis XVI Peter Martyr single nucleotide polymorphism education BATWING university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Mucogee Creeks Lithuania Neanderthals Irish DNA Alec Jeffreys origins of art Mark Thomas archeology linguistics phenotype Bode Technology Bryony Jones Middle Eastern DNA genetic determinism Kentucky Virginia DeMarce Elzina Grimwood William Byrd Valparaiso University Jewish GenWeb Anasazi ged.com Washington D.C. ethics Asian DNA Native American DNA Magdalenian culture ethnic markers Bureau of Indian Affairs Khazars Scotland peopling of the Americas Cleopatra Nova Scotia Monica Sanowar

Archive