If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

888-806-2588

review of scientific and news articles on dna testing and popular genetics

Gypsy Migrations

Wednesday, October 05, 2011

The Gypsies, or Roma, or Romani (so called because of their concentration in Romania) are a far-flung distinctive population with a lot of diversity. In our database, we have samples of four Gypsy populations, plus samples for Romania, Macedonia and Hungary which you can match if you have even a small degree of Gypsy/Romani.

Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East and often lived in the same Central European areas in modern times, but true Gypsy matches usually come with Indian, especially north Indian matches, because that's where the Gypsies lived around the 900s before they backtracked into Iran and Turkey and eventually crossed the Bosporus into Europe.

The Gypsy language, Romani, shows a strong Romanian influence but its basic vocabulary and grammar point to a north Indian origin.

The Gypsy religion, on the other hand, is not Indian or Hindu but closest to Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism.

"It is not known when or why the Gypsies left India but they were living in Iran by the tenth century AD. The Iranian poet Firdausi (c. 930-1020) wrote of the Gypsies in his epic history of the Iranians, the Shah Nama (Book of Kings), that they were originally a tribe of musicians who had been sent to the ruler of Iran by an Indian king. Once they had eaten the ruler out of house and home, the Gypsies took to the roads. By the 11th century Gypsies were living in the Byzantine empire and soon afterwards were spreading through the Balkans. When the Ottoman Turks began to overrun the Balkans in the 14th century, groups of Gypsies dispersed across western Europe, reaching Bohemia in 1399, Bavaria in 1418, Paris in 1421, Rome in 1423 and Spain in 1425. In the early 16th century Gypsies spread to Britain, Scandinavia, Poland and Russia, but the Balkans remained the main Gypsy centre." John Haywood, The Great Migrations from the Earliest Humans to the Age of Globalization (London:  Quercus), p. 142.


Gypsy Migrations according to Haywood.

Comments

Shari commented on 16-Oct-2011 10:26 AM

According to my mother’s Fingerprint Plus DNA test, both of her parents had Jewish I and Jewish III DNA. One parent had Tatar/Khazar DNA (Jewish IV). India was Mom’s Top World Match. Mom’s mother was genetically Roma-Gypsy. To date there is no genealogical
evidence that Mom’s father was either Roma-Gypsy or Jewish. I’m wondering if the combination of Jewish I and Jewish III along with Indian (from India) ancestry is the typical DNA pattern found for persons of Gypsy-Roma ancestry. Perhaps Jewish I and III could
also indicate only Jewish ancestry, a possibility for Mom’s father’s ancestry. Another possibility would be that her father had unconfirmed Gypsy-Roma ancestry. One or the other parent having Jewish IV DNA may provide a clue. I enjoyed reading GYPSY MIGRATIONS.
I’ve also found the following Internet article to be interesting. Dr. Hancock suggests that Romani had “military” beginnings on the basis of his linguistic and historical research: “An examination of the earliest words in the Romani language suggests a number
of things: firstly that there is little in the original, ‘first layer’ Indian vocabulary that reflects a nomadic or itinerant population, but rather it points to a settled one; and secondly that while there are not many original words for e.g. artisan or agricultural
skills, there are quite a few military terms... ”

From: ON ROMANI ORIGINS AND IDENTITY, Ian Hancock The Romani Archives and Documentation Center 
 The University of Texas at Austin

 http://www.radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_b_history_origins&lang=ry&articles=true

Donald Locke commented on 18-Oct-2011 12:23 AM

"Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East" I would disagree with this opinion that the Romany originated in the Middle East when we clearly originated in South Asia. India,
Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan. I am of the English Romanichal vista "clan" and the Romanichal vista Y DNA results clearly show a high average of our male population carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, more importantly I am the researcher who discovered the relationship
between marker 425 = 0, null to the Romany H1a male lineages. To date, of all the Romany H1a male lineages identified so far, of all those tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were found carrying this same null value marker mutation in common regardless our
surnames, and regardless which Romany vista "clan" we hail from. Romany of England, Scotland, Hungary, Bulgaria have found Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which clearly links the Romanichal vista to the Roma vista's of Europe. mt Haplo Group
M5a1 which is also being claimed as South Asian in origin has also recently been discovered amongst the English Romanichal. I am the Admin. of the Y Haplo Group H and Romany DNA projects with FTDNA. To date not a single Asian Y Haplo H1a male has been found
carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, this mutation so far is only found among the European Romany male population. And as far as I am concerned, H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation = Romany origins. Donald Locke

stevo commented on 11-May-2012 03:01 PM

my name is steven and i have found out that my real farther was Roma/Gypsy . my my mom was jewish from morroco. there are a group of people in eastern turkey called kerds and the name sindh is a common surname with them. i bealeve they travled to india
backtraped to turkey and then went to germany/auatria and this group beacame the sinti rom of the rinelands. that however is the sinti the other rom im not sure.

Theo commented on 31-Jul-2013 02:45 AM

Hello. While your article is interesting and should be accurate from a scientific point of view, I would like to make some amendments to your cultural references.

Back home gypsies are called Rromi, or Rrom ethnics, and that distinction makes no linguistic sense in Romanian. This leads me to believe they inherited the name from an older distinction. As a native Romanian, to me the gypsy language makes absolutely no sense. I can't understand a thing until they actually switch to a different language.

Mel commented on 17-May-2014 06:00 PM

A few corrections...

The word "Romani" has nothing to do with Romania, as stated in the article above. The word is the feminine adjective form of "Rom" which means man in the Romani language.

Our religion tends to be Christian, not "Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism".


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image


Recent Posts


Tags

Irish DNA Virginia DeMarce Asiatic Fathers of America Discovery Channel Virginia genealogy New York Review of Books Israel, Shlomo Sand Tifaneg DNA security Texas A&M University Mildred Gentry Colin Renfrew Elvis Presley DNA genetic determinism Ireland Science Daily, Genome Biol. Evol., Eran Elhaik, Khazarian Hypothesis, Rhineland Hypothesis Amy Harmon Cancer Genome Atlas Maui Muslims in American history Britain Lithuania Greeks peopling of the Americas European DNA Thuya Belgium Peter Martyr andrew solomon immunology INORA Charles Darwin Pima Indians Central Band of Cherokee Tennessee haplogroup Z Ron Janke Native American Graves Protection and Repatriation Act Abraham Lincoln French DNA Wendy Roth genomics labs Zuni Indians New York Academy of Sciences B'nai Abraham Comanche Indians Solutreans Cleopatra Fritz Zimmerman Black Irish 23andme Asian DNA Neolithic Revolution Les Miserables genealogy Bureau of Indian Affairs Hadassah Magazine archeology Scientific American Irish Central Beringia Nayarit Stephen Oppenheimer Clovis Acadians Nephilim, Fritz Zimmerman Stony Creek Baptist Church Nova Scotia Roma People mental foramen Holocaust mummies Central Band of Cherokees Tintagel Jewish novelists university of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Michael Grant Ancestry.com evolution clan symbols cancer American history Henry VII FOX News Patrick Henry ENFSI Phillipe Charlier Akhenaten Charlotte Harris Reese Old Souls in a New World far from the tree Eske Willerslev religion Russell Belk Cismaru Stan Steiner Cismar crypto-Jews Timothy Bestor Johnny Depp Genome Sciences Building Alia Garcia-Ureste India Lab Corp Mucogee Creeks Michoacan ancient DNA Melungeon Union George van der Merwede American Journal of Human Genetics population isolates Silverbell Artifacts Stephen A. Leon Daily News and Analysis Echota Cherokee Tribe of Alabama single nucleotide polymorphism William Byrd Michael Schwartz bloviators Native American DNA seafaring Mark Thomas Epigraphic Society DNA Forums Rutgers University Mary Kugler rock art Bentley surname research Colima Sizemore Indians Pueblo Grande Museum Nature Genetics origins of art Columbia University Chris Tyler-Smith hominids Kitty Prince of the Bear River Athabaskans Juanita Sims DNA Fingerprint Test Riane Eisler megapopulations Sinaloa Oxford Journal of Evolution Phoenix Helladic art X chromosome Navajo Germany Bradshaw Foundation family history Tom Martin Scroft Eric Wayner Jalisco Khoisan Walter Plecker Kate Wong Jan Ravenspirit Franz National Health Laboratories University of Leicester population genetics Melba Ketchum aliyah Kentucky Bulgaria El Castillo cave paintings consanguinity Arabia Patagonia Cree Indians genetic memory powwows GlobalFiler genetics First Peoples Sam Kean Bryony Jones haplogroup D Albert Einstein College of Medicine Kari Schroeder Puerto Rico Asiatic Echoes human migrations Olmec Finnish people Marija Gimbutas Magdalenian culture microsatellites Valparaiso University Anne C. Stone Hopi Indians haplogroup M Monica Sanowar Melanesians DNA magazine art history Hohokam mitochondrial DNA French Canadians gedmatch BBCNews John Ruskamp Plato Theodore Steinberg private allele Melungeons Richmond California Thruston Tablet Paleolithic Age Dienekes Anthropology Blog Ari Plost ethnic markers FDA Austronesian, Filipinos, Australoid M. J. Harper FBI Old World Roots of the Cherokee occipital bun North African DNA DNA testing companies mutation rate Wellcome Trust Sanger Institute Middle Eastern DNA hoaxes Chuetas Romania Bering Land Bridge Black Dutch health and medicine Monya Baker Ripan Malhi Rebecca L. Cann Kurgan Culture DNA Diagnostics Center bar mitzvah Great Goddess horizontal inheritance haplogroup H Freemont Indians Wikipedia Majorca Navajo Indians Basques When Scotland Was Jewish Carl Zimmer North Carolina National Geographic Daily News clinical chemistry Russia NPR Secret History of the Cherokee Indians Algonquian Indians Mary Settegast phenotype Ukraine Indo-Europeans Denisovans myths BATWING Alec Jeffreys Cherokee DNA Project David Reich Holocaust Database Jews autosomal DNA epigenetics Terry Gross Panther's Lodge Publishers The Nation magazine Henriette Mertz Zizmer Italy history of science Cherokee DNA haplogroup T England Etruscans Shlomo Sand Maronites Genie Milgrom Celts Arizona State University DNA Fingerprint Test personal genomics Donald N. Yates Chromosomal Labs Bode Technology Caucasian Harry Ostrer Hawaii Israel Marie Cheng Cajuns Maya Life Technologies EURO DNA Fingerprint Test Middle Ages haplogroup W Havasupai Indians Society for Crypto-Judaic Studies Penny Ferguson Population genetics Taino Indians Iran Tutankamun Tucson Abenaki Indians Gravettian culture CODIS markers Philippa Langley Sasquatch Bigfoot Anglo-Saxons Sea Peoples Sonora Europe China Telltown Erika Chek Hayden Cooper surname King Arthur Melungeon Movement Nature Communications Janet Lewis Crain Pueblo Indians Svante Paabo Roberta Estes Y chromosomal haplogroups James Stritzel haplogroup L Kari Carpenter Isabel Allende haplogroup R Sarmatians Lebanon corn MHC Henry IV Jon Entine Applied Epistemology Mother Qualla Richard Buckley Jim Bentley Sorbs John Wilwol race National Museum of Natural History Rare Genes Chris Stringer Victor Hugo Jewish genetics oncology Elzina Grimwood breast cancer African DNA Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America human leukocyte antigens b'nei anousim James Shoemaker Ancient Giantns Who Ruled America Nancy Gentry Gustavo Ramirez Calderon Nikola Tesla Richard Lewontin Oxford Nanopore Tucson crosses Sizemore surname Douglas Preston Neanderthals haplogroup U Ziesmer, Zizmor Daniel Defoe Grim Sleeper Arabic Smithsonian Institution Joseph Jacobs HapMap metis haplogroup N Bill Tiffee Keros Peter Parham Sinti linguistics Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma Indian Territory George Starr-Bresette Jewish GenWeb Joel E. Harris Early Jews of England and Wales Gunnar Thompson admixture haplogroup X prehistory Promega Panther's Lodge Current Anthropology Colin Pitchfork Joseph Andrew Park Wilson Zionism Mohawk Teresa Panther-Yates Alabama Hertfordshire Y chromosome DNA New York Times Austro-Hungary David Cornish Mark Stoneking Leicester Douglas C. Wallace Genex Diagnostics New Mexico alleles Cohen Modal Haplotype Khazars methylation climate change King Arthur, Tintagel, The Earliest Jews and Muslims of England and Wales Bryan Sykes Discover magazine Rafael Falk Cornwall Ostenaco Nadia Abu El-Haj N. Brent Kennedy Charles Perou statistics Ethel Cox Wales Early Jews and Muslims of England and Wales (book) cannibalism Luca Pagani Patrick Pynes Antonio Torroni ISOGG Arizona Salt River Elizabeth C. Hirschman familial Mediterranean fever Miguel Gonzalez haplogroup B District of Columbia Altai Turks Barnard College ethics Louis XVI Irish history surnames Kennewick Man polydactylism medicine Dragging Canoe pipe carving Sir Joshua Reynolds Phoenicians Constantine Rafinesque ged.com ethnicity Anasazi Robinson Crusoe Jesse Montes Moundbuilders haplogroup E John Butler Rush Limbaugh research Ashkenazi Jews Bode Technology Rich Crankshaw Jack Goins Chauvet cave paintings Wendell Paulson Cave art anthropology news PNAS giants Egyptians Stacy Schiff Family Tree DNA human leukocyte testing palatal tori Washington D.C. haplogroup C Melungeon Heritage Association Slovakia haplogroup J pheromones Myra Nichols El Paso Pomponia Graecina Richard Dewhurst DNA databases Anacostia Indians prehistoric art Satoshi Horai education Gila River The Calalus Texts Mexico Native American DNA Test Gypsies Hispanic ancestry Stone Age Illumina Odessa Shields Cox IntegenX forensics Yates surname rapid DNA testing haplogroup G AP Gregory Mendel Harold Sterling Gladwin Ananya Mandal Douglas Owsley Hohokam Indians Anne Marie Fine Micmac Indians Normans Horatio Cushman London Waynesboro Pennsylvania Phyllis Starnes Science magazine Turkic DNA Barack Obama Choctaw Indians Smithsonian Magazine Brian Wilkes Richard III Elizabeth DeLand Scotland Cherokee Freedmen Jewish contribution to world literature

Archive