If you want to discover your genetic history and where you came from... you’ve found the right place!

888-806-2588

review of scientific and news articles on dna testing and popular genetics

Gypsy Migrations

Wednesday, October 05, 2011

The Gypsies, or Roma, or Romani (so called because of their concentration in Romania) are a far-flung distinctive population with a lot of diversity. In our database, we have samples of four Gypsy populations, plus samples for Romania, Macedonia and Hungary which you can match if you have even a small degree of Gypsy/Romani.

Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East and often lived in the same Central European areas in modern times, but true Gypsy matches usually come with Indian, especially north Indian matches, because that's where the Gypsies lived around the 900s before they backtracked into Iran and Turkey and eventually crossed the Bosporus into Europe.

The Gypsy language, Romani, shows a strong Romanian influence but its basic vocabulary and grammar point to a north Indian origin.

The Gypsy religion, on the other hand, is not Indian or Hindu but closest to Jewish, Persian and Zoroastrian forms of monotheism.

"It is not known when or why the Gypsies left India but they were living in Iran by the tenth century AD. The Iranian poet Firdausi (c. 930-1020) wrote of the Gypsies in his epic history of the Iranians, the Shah Nama (Book of Kings), that they were originally a tribe of musicians who had been sent to the ruler of Iran by an Indian king. Once they had eaten the ruler out of house and home, the Gypsies took to the roads. By the 11th century Gypsies were living in the Byzantine empire and soon afterwards were spreading through the Balkans. When the Ottoman Turks began to overrun the Balkans in the 14th century, groups of Gypsies dispersed across western Europe, reaching Bohemia in 1399, Bavaria in 1418, Paris in 1421, Rome in 1423 and Spain in 1425. In the early 16th century Gypsies spread to Britain, Scandinavia, Poland and Russia, but the Balkans remained the main Gypsy centre." John Haywood, The Great Migrations from the Earliest Humans to the Age of Globalization (London:  Quercus), p. 142.


Gypsy Migrations according to Haywood.

Comments

Shari Van Enkevort commented on 16-Oct-2011 10:26 AM

According to my mother’s Fingerprint Plus DNA test, both of her parents had Jewish I and Jewish III DNA. One parent had Tatar/Khazar DNA (Jewish IV). India was Mom’s Top World Match. Mom’s mother was genetically Roma-Gypsy. To date there is no genealogical
evidence that Mom’s father was either Roma-Gypsy or Jewish. I’m wondering if the combination of Jewish I and Jewish III along with Indian (from India) ancestry is the typical DNA pattern found for persons of Gypsy-Roma ancestry. Perhaps Jewish I and III could
also indicate only Jewish ancestry, a possibility for Mom’s father’s ancestry. Another possibility would be that her father had unconfirmed Gypsy-Roma ancestry. One or the other parent having Jewish IV DNA may provide a clue. I enjoyed reading GYPSY MIGRATIONS.
I’ve also found the following Internet article to be interesting. Dr. Hancock suggests that Romani had “military” beginnings on the basis of his linguistic and historical research: “An examination of the earliest words in the Romani language suggests a number
of things: firstly that there is little in the original, ‘first layer’ Indian vocabulary that reflects a nomadic or itinerant population, but rather it points to a settled one; and secondly that while there are not many original words for e.g. artisan or agricultural
skills, there are quite a few military terms... ”

From: ON ROMANI ORIGINS AND IDENTITY, Ian Hancock The Romani Archives and Documentation Center 
 The University of Texas at Austin

 http://www.radoc.net/radoc.php?doc=art_b_history_origins&lang=ry&articles=true

Donald Locke commented on 18-Oct-2011 12:23 AM

"Gypsy DNA can sometimes be conflated or confused with Jewish DNA because both populations originated in the Middle East" I would disagree with this opinion that the Romany originated in the Middle East when we clearly originated in South Asia. India,
Sri Lanka, Nepal, parts of Pakistan. I am of the English Romanichal vista "clan" and the Romanichal vista Y DNA results clearly show a high average of our male population carrying Y Haplo Group H1a, more importantly I am the researcher who discovered the relationship
between marker 425 = 0, null to the Romany H1a male lineages. To date, of all the Romany H1a male lineages identified so far, of all those tested to the 67 marker level, 100% were found carrying this same null value marker mutation in common regardless our
surnames, and regardless which Romany vista "clan" we hail from. Romany of England, Scotland, Hungary, Bulgaria have found Y Haplo H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation, which clearly links the Romanichal vista to the Roma vista's of Europe. mt Haplo Group
M5a1 which is also being claimed as South Asian in origin has also recently been discovered amongst the English Romanichal. I am the Admin. of the Y Haplo Group H and Romany DNA projects with FTDNA. To date not a single Asian Y Haplo H1a male has been found
carrying the 425 = 0 marker mutation, this mutation so far is only found among the European Romany male population. And as far as I am concerned, H1a with the 425 = 0 marker mutation = Romany origins. Donald Locke

stevo commented on 11-May-2012 03:01 PM

my name is steven and i have found out that my real farther was Roma/Gypsy . my my mom was jewish from morroco. there are a group of people in eastern turkey called kerds and the name sindh is a common surname with them. i bealeve they travled to india
backtraped to turkey and then went to germany/auatria and this group beacame the sinti rom of the rinelands. that however is the sinti the other rom im not sure.


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image

Bookmark and Share

 

 

More Light on the Melungeons

Tuesday, August 30, 2011

Phyllis Starnes drew many threads of Melungeon research together when she delivered her presentation on autosomal DNA validation studies at the Fifteenth Melungeon Union, held atWarren Wilson College, Swannanoa, NC July 15-16, 2011. Sponsored by the Melungeon Heritage Association of Kingsport, Tenn., the conference was appropriately titled, "Carolina Connections: Roots and Branches of Mixed Ancestry."

Starnes, who is administrator of DNA Consultants' Melungeon DNA Studies as well as an assistant investigator responsible for authoring reports, began her presentation by telling her own story. In 2002, she read an article about the occurrence of Familial Mediterranean Fever in Appalachia, where she grew up. "This article was the catalyst for me to address my own health and ancestry," she told participants.

She had met N. Brent Kennedy, author of the touchstone book The Melungeons:  The Resurrection of a Proud People, and soon became acquainted with both Elizabeth Hirschman (Melungeons:  The Last Lost Tribe in America) and Donald Panther-Yates, both speakers at Melungeon Fourth Union in Kingsport. The resources she needed for understanding her peculiar heritage were coming together.

Starnes summarized the Hirschman-Yates study of Melungeon DNA results published last December in Appalachian Journal and went on to reveal the results of a validation study of the Melungeon data in which the DNA profiles of the 40 participants were fed back into the database atDNA, expanded to reflect the world's only autosomal DNA Melungeon sample.

Astoundingly, many Melungeon DNA project participants had Melungeon as their No. 1 match, including Starnes.

In 1990, physical anthropologist and chemist James Guthrie analyzed blood sampled from 177 Southern Appalachian people identifying as Melungeon tested by Pollitzer and Brown in 1969. Guthrie's analysis was consistent to a remarkable degree with the Hirschman-Yates study.

All studies to date have verified and confirmed repeatedly that Melungeon descendants carry an unusual mix of Jewish, Mediterranean, Turkish, Iberian, Native American and African DNA. They also inherit genetic predispositions toward developing Familial Mediterranean Fever and other disorders.

This overarching thesis explaining what makes Melungeons different was advanced over twenty years ago by Brent Kennedy. It has now been re-examined, probed, tested and validated by unimpeachable followup studies, but little has turned up to change Kennedy's original thinking. It would be wrong to say that Melungeon origins today are controversial or mysterious. There is much we do not know about them, but their genetic and medical profiles are clear.

Starnes is enrolling people in Phase II of the Melungeon DNA Study. She has also inaugurated a password-secured blog where participants can freely share their experiences.






Comments

Johnnie King commented on 10-Apr-2012 01:06 PM

My great-grandfather was a Goins through his mother - father unknown. He had two sons who have passed away; but, who have sons living. I am wondering if their DNA might assist in the research, or would they be excluded because the Melungeon tie is through
his mother? Thank you. Johnnie King


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image

Bookmark and Share

 

 

Validation Notes on Jewish Markers

Saturday, May 07, 2011

This posting will review some of the material we have previously made available about the science behind our three Jewish markers in the autosomal 18 Marker Ethnic Panel. First, it may be worthwhile to recount the chronology of our testing innovations in this area.

2006 - DNA Consultants introduces the DNA Fingerprint Test, one of the first simple autosomal ancestry tests based on population databases

2009 -Donald N. Yates, Ph.D., principal investigator, makes the discoveries in July that lay the foundation for the DNA Fingerprint Plus, rolled out in early September. The enhanced product includes simple autosomal markers for Native American, European, Jewish, Asian and African ancestry, based upon their frequencies of occurrence in these ethnicities.

2010 - Several important studies on Jewish genetics appear; DNA Consultants introduces Jewish DNA Test

2011 - DNA Consultants releases version 2.0 of its autosomal population database atDNA, marking the addition of the population Melungeon (n=40).

One of the first of the Jewish markers to be blogged about was Jewish II, characteristic of Ashkenazi Jews. Theodor Herzl, the nineteenth-century Austro-Hungarian Zionist thinker-organizer who helped inspire the founding of the State of Israel, is an example of a famous Ashkenazi Jew. There was another post titled Jewish Marker II Statistical Notes.

A post on Jewish I soon followed, together with a discussion about its European connections. There has been an ongoing discussion on the Jewish Forum on DNA Communities.

Jewish III has been the slowest to emerge. Its Middle Eastern nature has been explored and expanded upon in several threads on DNA Communities.

In the Fall of 2010, our project administrator tabulated results for more than 450 people who had ordered a Jewish Ancestry Test through our partner Jewish Voice. It was found that 99.97% showed at least one Jewish marker, that is, had some Jewish ancestry.  Some had all three markers while others had a combination of the three in some way.  The informal study indicated 74% of Jewish Ancestry Test takers had Jewish I, 30% had Jewish II and 82% Jewish III.



Comments
Post has no comments.

Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image

Bookmark and Share

 

 

What Do You Call It?

Saturday, December 04, 2010

Surely Not "Ancestry Painting and Global Similarity"

We were surprised to see what DNA testing companies are calling their autosomal products these days. Ours is the DNA Fingerprint family of products, but 23&me calls their entry "Ancestry Painting and Global Similarity" and "Personal Genome Service." Others offer "Genetic Ancestry Analysis," "Family Finders," and "Ancestral Origins."

Before the introduction of DNA fingerprinting for ancestry purposes, DNA testing was limited to the father’s male line or mother’s mitochondrial lineage. Newer autosomal tests can be taken by a male or female. They analyze all your lines at once, not just the two traditional ones of genetic genealogy. Autosomal DNA is the great equalizer, but it's not being marketed very adroitly.

A beginner’s class titled "Ancestry Tracing with an Autosomal DNA Test:  Conceptions and Misconceptions" will be presented by DNA Consultants principal investigator Donald N. Yates, Ph.D., at the upcoming Arizona Family History Expos. It will provide an overview of autosomal DNA tests that are capable of yielding a more complete picture of your family tree and its roots. Covered are the science and history of DNA fingerprinting, what markers are delineated, the databases used for finding matches, and methods and strategies for interpreting your results, including follow-up websites, social networking and readings.

The event takes place at the Arizona Family History Expo 2011, Lecture 73, Conference Theater, 11:00 a.m., Saturday, Jan. 22, 2011, Mesa Convention Center, 263 North Center Street, Mesa, Arizona 85201. For information on attending, visit Family History Expos or contact Holly T. Hansen at info@fhexpos.com.

Comments
Post has no comments.

Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image

Bookmark and Share

 

 

Validation of Melungeon Population Data

Thursday, November 04, 2010

Our New Computer Program Validates Melungeon Sample and Conclusions


Early experiments with our new Melungeon Match product show that members of the original research study score extremely high for a match to the population Melungeon (n=40) recently added to the database atDNA (Beta Version).

A sample of forty self-identifying Melungeons was assembled for a study by Donald N. Yates and Elizabeth C. Hirschman that should appear in the fall issue of Appalachian Journal. Their autosomal profiles formed the first population to be added to our new computer program atDNA, which contains the database used for the DNA Fingerprint Test

As an example, one of the participants, with known Melungeon ancestry including Ramey descent through her father, elicited the following top five matches in the new database, with Melungeon as her No. 3 match:

Polish - Podlasie  (n = 842) 6.19E+14
Slovenian (n = 193) 8.92E+14
Melungeon (n = 40) 9.9E+14
Egyptian Copts - Adaima (n = 100) 1.05E+15
Polish - (n = 412) 1.07E+15

In the participant's father's results (Floyd Milton Grimwood, deceased), Melungeon was higher, occupying the No. 1 spot:

Melungeon (n = 40) 1.63E+13
Slovenian (n = 193) 1.75E+14
Polish - Podlasie  (n = 842) 2.39E+14
Belarusian - Northeastern Poland (n = 212) 2.42E+14
Polish (n = 870) 2.52E+14

Such results tend to confirm the representativeness of the original sample, which contained closely and distantly related people of declared Melungeon ancestry, and validate its conclusions.

Melungeon DNA Project Administrator, Phyllis Starnes, who is also a moderator for the Melungeon Forum on DNA Communities, is coordinating the check for Melungeon ranking for the 40 participants. She will have a summary statement ready soon.

Statistically, the results are nothing short of astounding. They show Melungeon autosomal DNA reflects a well-defined population isolate with multiple interrelatedness. Melungeon is a valid historical and scientific label, not an arbitrary or adventitious designation or construct.

Pictured above:  four generations of the Tennessee Melungeon Ramey family.

Comments

Teresa Yates commented on 04-Nov-2010 07:24 PM

How fascinating! This proves that my Rameys were Melungeons AND that they are a distinct population. Floyd Milton Grimwood was my father. I knew as a young girl that there was something very, very different going on in my family. Others knew it too. I was considered "other" as a young girl which made it very difficult growing up. My Aunt Elzina said that they were French but originally came from EGYPT! They dressed oddly in black boots and severe long black dresses with no makeup- no one dressed like this in the 50's. She told me that my gg grandmother Demarice, mother of Etalka Vetula (my grandmother) "arrived at a rich man's farm and trained the horses" when she was 10. These are not normal pioneer family stories. I asked her about my grandmother's people ( I thought they were Indian). She only laughed and said, " They were not Indian. You will never discover the truth about my mother's people." I think I did.
--Teresa Panther-Yates

sprsim commented on 05-Nov-2010 10:54 AM

One of the more interesting posts.

James R Carney commented on 06-Nov-2010 05:30 PM

This finally confirms for me what I have been studying since 2000, when I learned of these interesting people. I have participated with a Melungeon discussion group and found through research I was related in some way to most everyone! My Fathers Mother according to stories told by my mom was Cajun. That didn't make sense to me in AL because I thought the Cajuns (Acadians) were in Louisiana
I learned that actually there are Alabama Cajuns that are different but none the less French-Indian from the time that The French were on the Alabama Rivers and Coast in 1700-1763. I had several surnames on both sides of my family that are in the the Melungeon surnames. This test and validation was for me great confirmation and satisfying after all the research and look forward to what new things turn up to add to the academic knowledge on the early settlement of America that is not in the History Books we learned about the English settling of America!!!
DJ Thornton

Nancy Sparks Morrison commented on 08-Nov-2010 02:33 PM

This is great work! My Melungeon was 3rd on my list and I do believe that it comes via the COLLINS family but with absolutely no way to find that connection. I have searched for over 30 years and there is no written documentation.

The family stories, the physical characteristics, some health issues, some of the 'ways of doing things' all seem to add up to the Melungeon inclusion and now THIS!

thanks so much!
Love and health in family ties,
Nancy

Julia Starnes commented on 08-Nov-2010 04:53 PM

With the roots of both sides of my family tree sunken deep in Stony Creek in Scott County, VA it doesn't surprise me that my number one match is Melungeon.
The Native American and French matches fit with family lore.
The Romani matches--well perhaps that explains my love for Roma dance and music with it's unusual time signatures 7/8's and 9/8's.

Thanks,
Julia

Teresa Yates commented on 09-Nov-2010 09:38 PM

Most all of my lines are Melungeon: Collins, Graham, Newberry, Ramey and from SC/TN/GA/AL.
My Prevatt line is French/Indian and from AL/VG.
Don's ancestor, a Bondurant, and my Pierre Prevatt, came across on the same ship.
Nancy, I too hit a wall with my Collins line long ago.
It is wonderful to have this all as confirmation.
Teresa

Ann R. Davis commented on 15-Dec-2010 08:06 PM

I don't understand. How can "Melungeon" be considered a population, if it's mixture is different from family to family? I had an autosomal dna test done by DNA consultants and Wonder if I had a mixture that would have been considered "Melungeon." I've been trying to find out for years.


Please tell us what you think

Name, website, and email are optional; if we publish your comment, your name will be shown, and may be linked to your website if provided, but the email you enter will not be published.





Captcha Image

Bookmark and Share

 

 


Recent Posts


Tags

Asian DNA DNA testing companies Indo-Europeans DNA Forums human leukocyte antigens Plato Abraham Lincoln African DNA Shlomo Sand Wendy Roth Melanesians DNA Fingerprint Test Greeks population isolates Akhenaten Austronesian, Filipinos, Australoid North African DNA Cleopatra Hopi Indians medicine cannibalism Pueblo Indians education BBCNews George Starr-Bresette mitochondrial DNA ancient DNA Y chromosomal haplogroups genomics labs Cohen Modal Haplotype Middle Ages ethnicity Jews Stone Age Teresa Panther-Yates Denisovans Basques seafaring genealogy Donald N. Yates Havasupai Indians Belgium haplogroup E genetics HapMap Anasazi Wales Stacy Schiff Bradshaw Foundation Nikola Tesla Chuetas Alabama Gunnar Thompson China Micmac Indians Bode Technology human migrations Great Goddess rock art Bryan Sykes Chris Stringer Tintagel Jone Entine history of science Gypsies Tutankamun Italy Anne Marie Fine Charles Darwin Arizona State University statistics Egyptians Sorbs DNA Fingerprint Test climate change Acadians French DNA haplogroup U Khazars prehistory Celts personal genomics INORA Barack Obama BATWING M. J. Harper Arabia Y chromosome DNA Britain Choctaw Indians George van der Merwede Pima Indians Zuni Indians Neolithic Revolution clan symbols population genetics Sea Peoples religion Cherokee DNA French Canadians Michael Grant haplogroup X evolution England Kurgan Culture Russia European DNA Helladic art forensics Normans FOX News linguistics epigenetics India myths Phyllis Starnes Maya haplogroup B Peter Parham Abenaki Indians Colin Renfrew Panther's Lodge Etruscans Applied Epistemology Keros Freemont Indians Magdalenian culture haplogroup T Phoenicians Caucasian Middle Eastern DNA corn Gregory Mendel news Europe immunology Melungeon Union Telltown Jews and Muslims in British Colonial America Lebanon Melungeons surnames Majorca Elizabeth C. Hirschman Nova Scotia Roma People Jewish genetics EURO DNA Fingerprint Test Anglo-Saxons Maronites Ashkenazi Jews ethnic markers Cajuns Paleolithic Age Arabic archeology American history Mary Settegast Native American DNA Kentucky N. Brent Kennedy Current Anthropology Tifaneg mental foramen Marija Gimbutas megapopulations Gravettian culture Theodore Steinberg health and medicine anthropology Cornwall ethics Joseph Jacobs Neanderthals occipital bun Algonquian Indians haplogroup J King Arthur Irish history Dienekes Anthropology Blog autosomal DNA Finnish people Stephen Oppenheimer Population genetics Oxford Nanopore Ireland Hohokam Indians Native American DNA Test Melungeon Heritage Association Riane Eisler Turkic DNA Iran

Archive